Forum Activity for @matt-berg

Scallops between the frets

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Well, the person I referenced did not have a problem with the scalloping with jumbo frets bending the notes.  I'm sure the extra space would make bending easier.

I play several dulcimers with different vsl.  When I move from a shorter to a longer vsl, my fingers tend to do down nearer the previous fret.  If I don't press hard enough, I get fret buzz.  //adjusting to play nearer the proper fret eliminates the buzz.  I believe this is what is meant by the sweet spot.  There is a larger space between two frets where you can press down and be sure there is no unwanted buzzing.

Like most of my builds, I like to experiment with different setups.  I have heard of scalloping, but never tried.  I will in some future build and wanted to hear thoughts on the best way to do it.

Scallops between the frets

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From my limited experience playing the tagelharpa/jouhikko (where you press the strings with the backs of your fingers to fret notes, but there is no fretboard to press the string to), I'd guess that pressing down the strings to a fretboard that was deepened down could very easily bend the notes. Most of us are used to feeling the fretboard there with the soft pads of our fingers without necessarily 'mashing' the strings. Of course, one could also use this to purposely create bending and vibrato effects. 

I'm still not sure why scalloped frets would 'create a bigger sweet spot' between the frets (assuming one does not aggressively 'mash down' while fretting anyway). The fact that the note is created off the metal fret does not change. I always thought that scalloped frets on guitars were there to better facilitate bending the notes, as in blues or jazz playing.  ?

Scallops between the frets

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@dwain-wilder,  Yep, his dulcimer had both scallops and jumbo frets.  To oversimplify, it think high end dulcimer players can be separated into two types, the mashers and the dancers.  The mashers slam down the strings into the fret board, the dancers press the strings down so they touch the frets, but try not to push the string into the fret board.  I can't say which is better as either type has a much better playing skill set than I do.  Good idea about the fret slots.  Scallop will weaken the top.

@ken-longfield  Ken, I was considering cutting a string of wood with chamfers on both sides and gluing them to the fret board and then cutting the fret slots.  Should accomplish the same thing.

@skip  Skip, agreed,  Any fret higher than the eight fret will need files.  

Thanks all for your thoughts.  I doubt I will get anything done for a couple months, but will post what I do, if I choose to work at it.

Scallops between the frets

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Are you considering making the scallops after fretting? or before? I would recommend scalloping afterward, as any error in marking and carving to the mark would be very obvious.

I would also advise taking a step taught me by the owner of Buck's County Music Shop: chamfer the edges of the fret slot outs to the width of the fret tang's barbs, so the barbs do not pull out surface wood during fret removal —no need to heat the fret, which always risks marring the fretboard. Future repairers and re-fretters will bless you, and the scallops will be preserved intact.

As for scalloping the fretboard, do you know why higher frets weren't chosen? That would effect the sweet spot as well, without the unusual effort.

Scallops between the frets

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For me it would depend upon how deep the scallops are. One method might be to use a variety of thickness of drum sanders. Another method would be to cut kerfs across the fretboard and then use a chisel to remove the wood left after sawing. You might need a file to smooth out the surface a little. Just a couple of quick things that come to mind.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Scallops between the frets

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Sanding drum[s], round files, roundnose end mills [combined with flat cutting for the longer spaces]. Use sacrifice scrap wood on each side to prevent tear outs. 

Scallops between the frets

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I had an opportunity to talk with a well known dulcimer couple.  The gentleman showed me a fretboard he had made with scallops between the frets.  He said this created a much larger sweet spot for fretting.  The scallops worked well, but I could see they were a bit uneven.  I am considering making a fretboard with scallops and am looking for ideas on how to smooth out the scallops.  So, any thoughts on how to make smooth scallops between frets?

Happy Christmas to ya!!!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

Three Strings or Four ?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 
As I explained in the other thread where you mentioned this, it is incorrect. The builder sets the action after the frets are already installed. The action is determined by the distance between the crowns of the frets and the bottom of the strings, so the actual height of the frets does not affect action. 

Three Strings or Four ?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Jumbo frets are taller than normal frets which effectively lowers the action

Three Strings or Four ?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Generally w/ 4 string dulcimers the strings are thinner to lower the tension

dulcimer kit

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You're entirely welcome, friends!   I'm glad to be able to contribute to a discussion now and then.

dulcimer kit

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Thanks for all these neat details @john-c-knopf

dulcimer kit

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Well, I wish I had paid closer attention to the details back in 1974 when I began my friendship with Lynn McSpadden. I didn't pay much attention to the kits or teardrop dulcimers at the time as I was enamored by the hourglass shape. I guess I built a half dozen or so of them before I started looking at building teardrops.

Ken

The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

dulcimer kit

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(non-completed f-holes)

dulcimer kit

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The reason I was so sure of the provenance of the dulcimer kit is that I used to study (and drool over) the brochures and catalogs that The Dulcimer Shoppe put out in the early 70s.  And I remembered the shape of that model dulcimer (T8-W), and the non-completed f-holes, which drove me nuts!  The builder had to complete the cutouts if  they wanted proper f-holes. 

I believe this dulcimer kit shares most of the parts of the M8-W kit that I bought as my FIRST dulcimer in 1974!  That's right-- I've built all shapes and sizes of these critters for 50 years now.

dulcimer kit

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I am unable to take any more photos, it was someone in the audience we were playing Christmas music for - who had it and I was speaking with him about it. 

(Dulcimer Factory instrument ) they usually have a fatter sound box and a wider fret board but yes, a similar head.

It maybe too much of a mystery without me having it to further check & or photo

thanks guys

dulcimer kit

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Okay, time to eat my words and apologize to John for doubting him. I went back and looked at McSpadden catalogs for the late 1970s and early 1980s and found that McSpadden produced a T-K4 kit based on there T-9W dulcimer. The catalog photo, which isn't very good, strongly resembles your dulcimer Marg. It should be approximately  35 1/2" long, 5 7/8" wide, and 2 1/2" deep. It describes the peg head as having "a single leprechaun shoe curl. 

John, I think you nailed it. Again my apology for ever doubting you. You the man!

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

dulcimer kit

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Your picture of the "bridge" end doesn't show enough to make good guesses about it. Two photos, top and side, could help.

A straight on side shot of the head might also help. There are, I think, quite a number of variations of that "leprechaun" shape when all builders are considered. We might match the profile.

The tuner set-up interests me. The wholes are drilled straight through as though violin pegs were to be used, but the tuners installed are banjo or ukulele type.

dulcimer kit

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Marg, there really isn't a nut as the zero fret serves that purpose. It is a string guide to keep the strings in the right places. I think Wally may be on to something. The peg head looks similar to one I had on a Dulcimer Factory instrument (which I no longer have). On to further searching.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank you, @marg !  

Wishing you & all a lovely holiday season! 

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

dulcimer kit

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ken

( sound holes appear to un-McSpadden )  and the wood.

What about the nut & bridge, can  the way, they are made - ring any bells

thanks, everyone for the possibilities

dulcimer kit

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Hill Country Dulcimers, successor to The Dulcimer Factory (TDF), used a variation of that style head and a zero fret in 2002. Possibly TDF also made a model in this style. I think both produced kits.

See the following for an example.

https://reverb.com/item/60222347-vintage-handcrafted-hill-country-dulcimer-fredericksburg-tx-hummingbird

dulcimer kit

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I'm not as sure as John is about the provenance of this dulcimer. The only thing that speaks McSpadden to me is the zero fret. I'll need to look through my McSpadden material to check. I don't know that much about the years from1962 - 1974, so I'll see what is in the files. The material used in making this instrument and sound holes appear to un-McSpadden like to me.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

dulcimer kit

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Marg, that is, for sure, an early teardrop kit from McSpadden, which was known as The Dulcimer Shoppe back then.  The shape of the scroll was called a leprechaun curl, and the other kits had them also until they switched to guitar-type pegheads.

dulcimer kit

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The group I play with was preforming today and someone from the audience had  - what looks like - it was make from a kit. Who ever made it did a very good job but there is no label or any markings that would give me a hint on maybe the kit used. 

I only have these few photos, the sound hold is very different, maybe a clue. It does have the 6.5 but the older screw tuners & small nails for the string pegs. Also no violin lip/ smooth straight sides. 

Any guesses would be great

thanks

updated by @marg: 12/17/24 04:10:14PM

Recent acquisitions...

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Very nice collection, Peter. At least while the McSpadden's owned the company no dulcimer was made by an individual. According to Lynn McSpadden the person who was responsible for gluing on the backs on a particular day was the one who signed the dulcimer. By that time someone made the fretboard, another worked on bending the sides, another gluing the sides to peg head and tail piece, etc. The last glue up was adding the back to the already completed top, sides, fret board, tail piece, and peg head glue up. After that someone else did the final sanding. Then there was the next step of applying the lacquer finish by someone else. There were at least four or five people who signed dulcimers initially. I think Richard Stolze and Larry McSpadden continued to work for the Dulcimer Shoppe after it was sold, so they continued to sign instruments. If people want to believe that one person made their dulcimer, they can do so, but that simply wasn't the case with McSpadden dulcimers.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Recent acquisitions...

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Nice collection Stoltze McSpaddens. It's such a blessing that you have dulcimers and a heart to lend them. We have a number of great dulcimer folks on the forum who have loaners. Its the best way to share our love of the dulcimer with others to allow them to become addicted like we are. Thanks for sharing.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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Wally, thanks for the info, especially about having the bridge inside edge the highest.  I wondered about that since the breakover point in the bridge would be hard to determine with a flat slot!

Recent acquisitions...

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All of these four McSpadden Dulcimers have one thing in common: they all were made by Richard Stoltze.
When I bought my first Mountain Dulcimer from The Dulcimer Shoppe in October 2012, it was the first time I heard of Richard Stoltze. He was the maker of my beautiful 4FHWW with ebony fretboard (the one on the very right). Still today I am happy about the perfect craftsmanship, the beautiful black walnut wood and most of all of the warm and clear sound.

I know that many hands work on a McSpadden dulcimer. Anyway, there's always one responsible maker who puts the instrument together. The surname "Stoltze" is probably related to the German word "Stolz" which means "pride". You can be very proud of all the great instruments you made during your working life. They still make thousands of people happy. Thank you,  Richard Stoltze 🤗

Recently I bought three pre-used McSpadden dulcimers. All of them are in very good condition. I want to be able to lend a good instrument to interested people. From left to right you can see:

FM12-W No. 17745, no date given
T34-W No. 29808 July 1994
SH12WW No. 48864 June 2005
4FHWW/e No. 57739 October 2012

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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You don't need to buy a replacement blank made of bone, or other super-hard material. Those can be a good choice, but they are hard to shape.

You can use hard wood. that is easier to shape with sandpaper. You can start with a longer piece to make it easier to hold.

It is important to properly slope the slots, not just space them correctly. The inside edges need to be higher. The slope may not be readily visible on the original.

The slope or curvature of the top isn't musically important.

By the way, I don't think the question of a "zero fret" has been raised. If you have one, the "nut" is just a spacer, and all this discussion is irrelevant at the head end.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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It finally dawned on me that the octave fret (7th fret) has to be dead center as to the VSL or nothing will be right!  So, as you indicated, no change to the VSL or it will be a mess!  Thank you all!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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Also, if you were to get a nut of a different thickness, which I don't recommend until you understand the instrument better, the most important thing is that the length of the VSL isnt changed. Under no circumstances should a new nut and bridge cause the VSL to become any longer or shorter. A new nut and bridge should snugly fit against the inside edges of the slots from the old nut and bridge.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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There isnt a steadfast answer, because if the strings are at a higher tension, they can allow a smaller space, whereas at a lower tension they need more space. Also, super glue has been mass produced since the 60s, but it is not preferable. If you were to fill in the slots, there is an old trick of filling slots with baking soda, then carefully dripping on superglue, which creates a very strong compound. Also, filling the slots with sawdust and adding wood glue can work well. Sawdust and wood flue is more aesthetic, whereas baking soda and superglue is much stronger.
updated by @nate: 12/16/24 02:29:29AM

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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Thanks for the info and Merry Christmas!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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I've used Franklin Titebond wood glue for years and am happy with it,  I can heat a bad joint and pop it open quite easily if needed.  And it's quite strong for my purposes.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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I have a video from McSpadden produced in the mid 1970s where Lynn McSpadden says that used aliphatic resin glue in building his dulcimers. This is what I used when I made my first few dulcimers around that time. It came in a can as a powder which you mixed with a prescribed amount of water. Of course, you could make it as thin or thick as you liked, but the thicker you made it caused the glue to crystalize creating weak joints.

Lynn began making a dulcimer in 1962 and finished it in 1963. I don't remember him ever telling me that he used hide glue.

White Elmer's glue has a polyvinyl acetate base. The yellow wood glues contains less water and is aliphatic resin based.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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Ken Longfield said "Back in 1974 I would guess that McSpadden recommended using a wood glue like Original Titebond or Elmer's Wood Glue."

I would agree as far as kit instructions go.

The "factory team," including kit assemblers, might well have been using hot hide glue mixed from powder.

see: http://www.makingtheviolin.com/Glues

Most other wood glues for serious work only became available after about 1950, and the traditional stuff still has a following, partly because it can be disassembled with modest heat.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

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Back in 1974 I would guess that McSpadden recommended using a wood glue like Original Titebond or Elmer's Wood Glue. As John says, they'd only have a drop or two of glue coming from the factory, but if this is a home assembled kit, it is difficult to know what glue was used. I could be white Elmer's glue which makes it very easy to disassemble. You might check at Stew-Mac to see what nut blanks they have available. I'm sure you can find something that will fit your dulcimer. You want to the surface of the nut butting up against the fret side of the slot. If it were to butt up against the peg head side you would be changing the VSL and throwing the intonation of the strings out of whack.

John's suggestion of check at a Guitar Center or local music shop for a nut blank is also a good idea. You won't pay shipping that way.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."